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 Post subject: Plumbing a house, the French way
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Location: Was Plouasne 22830, now Ploeuc sur Lie 22150, France
Plumbing a house
Hot & Cold Water
The Basics

For a layman I would advise them to use plastic piping, but not the c-pvc pipe (the joints need 24 hours to set, and it can be brittle, and be broken easily), rectulated-polyethylene, or cross linked polyethylene (known as PEX or Alphacan etc) for fitting the fittings to the tube a special tool is used, to draw up a brass ring over the plastic tube after a brass insert is fitted into the tube compressing the plastic pipe wall on to the ridges on the insert

If you feel competent in using an oxy acetylene torch, or a gas torch, for hard soldering the copper tube, I would advise using copper tube, in France all copper tube for water is hard soldered, very few compression joints are used by the French plumbers

Both forms of tubing have good and bad points

The plastic tube, is easy to work with, no scrap value (no theft from an unoccupied site) ideally needs a special cutter to cut the tube cleanly, needs a special crimping tool (costly), the tube needs a special former to stop the tube from 'throating' or collapsing when bent on a tight radius, joints can leak if made without care; pipe sizes: 12mm, 16mm, 20mm; in 5 mtr, 10 mtr, 25 tr, or 50mtr coils; with or without an outer sleeve (gaine in French)

The copper tube, this can come in "dead" hard temper, of 1 mtr, 2 mtr, 3 mtr, or 4 mtr lengths, or in "dead" soft temper coils, of 5mtr, 10 mtr, 25 mtr, or 50 mtr coils; copper tube in France is 1mm wall thickness, anf comes in equal pipe dimensions and starts at 6mm id / 8mm od, (so you would ask for 10/12 mm tube if you wanted a pipe with a 10mm internal bore), and rises in 2mm steps ie 6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22 mm, for normal house plumbing unless the copper tube is soft temper, it needs to be anneled to soften it, prior to being bent, is pricey to buy (and has a potential for theft from site) copper tube in coils can be also obtained with a 'light' plastic covered insulation, a hard solder (99% copper, 1% phosphorus) is used for the jointing the copper tubes, SOFT SOLDER is not used by French plumbers

=====================================================================

Plumbing a French house is a little different to the plumbing in the UK

First all the water supply is off the main supply (no water storage tanks in the roof space to get contaminated), which is normally around 3 Bar pressure (1 Bar =1 Atmosphere: approx 14.5 lbs a square inch) or about 45lbs sq inch, this pressure means that smaller pipe sizes can be used, both for the hot and cold supplies; if the mains pressure is greater than 3 Bar a pressure reduceing valve needs to be fitted just after the main stop valve where it comes into the building

The modern French way of plumbing a house is to use manifolds for the distribution of both hot and cold water inside the house, a set of manifolds per floor is normal, if the manifolds are fitted with quarter turn valves on the branches, a single appliance can be isolated, these manifolds can either be made on site (to suit the job in-hand) or purchased (3, 4, or 6 outlets, but can be joined together for more outlets), all tube copper or plastic where its buried in the floor or wall must be covered with a plastic gaine

The hot water cylinder is normally a mains water fed, electrically heated, (200 litres is normal capacity, but 100 ltr 150 ltr and 300 ltr can be obtained), and is a glass lined steel cylinder with a 75mm insulating and a light steel cover jacket, indirect cylinders (with an internal coil heated by a boiler can be obtain, but are expensive), some boilers come with an integral stainless steel cylinder

The incoming mains water, hot water cylinder, and quite often the boiler as well, are often fitted in the garage, this is where the ground floor manifolds would be fitted close to the incoming water and hot water cylinder and the tubes fitted in the 'first fix' stage are connected

First fix is where the tubes are laid under the concrete slab, or screed, useing a manifold system, this normaly allows the pipe work to be laid in one length without any joints in the concrete slab or screed, which can be reassuring that there are no leaks are in the buried part of the building

Normal Pipe Sizes for different appliances etc

Incoming water supply: Copper tube 22mm, Medium Density Polyethylene (French, black with 4 light blue stripes) 19mm id x 25mm od :

Note in old buildings lead pipe can still be found this should be replaced, iron pipe can also be found this needs to be replaced, PVC pipe can also be found, do not touch it can be brittle and snap on you

Hot water cylinder 22 mm copper for at least the first metre, if changing to plastic
Bath 16 mm or 18 mm
Shower 14 mm or 16 mm
Wash hand basin 12 mm
Bidets 12 mm or 14mm
Kitchen sink 14 mm
Tap for a washing machine or dish washer 12 mm
W/C 10mm
Out side tap 14 mm
All sizes are internal diameter

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Three meat and one veg

An old wild fowling motto : little powder, plenty lead, kill 'em dead

English born, Living in France, Therefore European

http://www.peakeenergies.fr/

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 Post subject: Re: Plumbing a house, the French way
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:59 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Cher
Please which is the correct solder to use for plumbing copper to copper copper to brass ?

D176125a
Weld tin 40 %, wire full 250g Ø 2 mm
9.20 €


D176150a
Weld tin 40 %, wire full 500g Ø 2 mm
15.37 €


D176025a
Weld tin 40 %, soul scouring 250g Ø 2 mm
8.78 €


D176080a
Weld tin 40 %, soul scouring 500g Ø 2 mm
17.82 €


D176420a
Weld tin 97% copper 3% Full 250g Ø 2 mm
15.33 €


D176450a
Weld tin 97% copper 3% Full 500g Ø 2 mm
28.63 €


D176225a
Weld tin 97% 3% copper scouring 250g Ame Ø 2 mm
EUR 15.00


D176227a
Weld tin 97% copper 3% Meas scouring 250g 3mm Dia.
14.64 €


D176250a
Weld tin 97% 3% copper scouring 500g Ame Ø 2 mm
28.96 €


D176252a
Weld tin 97% copper 3% Meas scouring 500g 3mm Dia.
28.96 €


D842001a
Weld tin 50% 250g Ø 2 mm
9.14 €


D247902a
Paint solder, tin 97% copper 3% 250 g
24.57 €


D842003a
Weld tin 96.5 % money 3.5 % full 250g Ø 2 mm
40.62 €


D842004a
Weld tin 96.5 % money 3.5 % full 500g Ø 2 mm
71.65 €


D842005a
Weld tin 96.5 % 3.5 % Ame money scouring 500g Ø 2 mm
71.65 €


D842000a
Weld tin 94% money 6 % full 250g Wire Ø 2 mm
50.10 €


D402764a
Soft Solder BG 4299 G tin 50% 250g Ø 2 mm CASTOLIN
17.58 €


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 Post subject: Re: Plumbing a house, the French way
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 14254
Location: Was Plouasne 22830, now Ploeuc sur Lie 22150, France
The recognised correct way to solder copper to copper/brass, for water use, is to use a hard solder rod, 99% copper and 1% phosphorous, no flux is needed for copper to copper, but a flux must be used for copper to brass

If using copper tube for gas you MUST USE an approved hard solder rod, with a minimum silver content and an approved flux

You should be able to purchase these in any plumbers merchant or "shed"

_________________
Three meat and one veg

An old wild fowling motto : little powder, plenty lead, kill 'em dead

English born, Living in France, Therefore European

http://www.peakeenergies.fr/

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