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 Post subject: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:50 am 
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"Le gouvernement a décidé de baisser la vitesse maximale autorisée de 90 à 80 km/h sur les "routes bilatérales sans séparation" dès 2018." l which won't make much difference round here as the local;s who have the ability to see round blind corners will carry on regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:19 am 
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Agreed, Wilbro. It's not just speed that kills today, it's using a mobile phone, particularly texting, while driving. They seem to be doing pretty well catching drivers on their phones in the UK, why don't they try it here ???

I understood that statistically, there were more accidents in urban areas with a 50km limit. But statistics are hard to get hold of in France, and anyway, the way that they are manipulated, I'm not sure what to believe any more.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:50 am 
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There was a horrible accident locally this summer. An English couple with a baby on holiday were in an accident with a lorry on a route sans separation. The baby and the father were killed.
All tested negative for alcohol. The 27 yr old lorry driver was found to be sending sms at the time of the collision, using excess speed and ignored his repose time. He got 7 years.

I don't believe people who text and drive will even notice the speed limit signs.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:41 pm 
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They should hit that sort of person where it hurts, Scooby : the vehicle for starters, no matter who it belongs to, should be crushed. That could have interesting knock-on effects .....

Texting whilst driving, means complete disregard for the life/lives he put in danger. It's like drinking and driving - causing death by these deliberate actions merits more than 7 years. They are surely a danger to the public.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I think it's a bit harsh to crush a €100,000 plus lorry owned by a possibly totally innocent owner just because some nut he employs in good faith kills people with it.

However, your point is well made and 7 years is way too little for the real perpetrator.

As regards speed limits, it doesn't bother me one iota if they reduce the limit on single carriageway roads, if only they would stop the ridiculous up and down limits without fair warning.

If it does have any effect on speeders, perhaps it may put more of them onto the peages and leave the emptier roads for me. :-?

However, seeing the high number of people who pass me at much faster speeds than the 90 I'm doing, I doubt whether they will take any more notice of lower limits.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:59 pm 
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We have discussed elsewhere the utter stupidity of the French trailer rules - however in this case I wonder whether there will be a similar reduction by 10 KPH on speed limits for >3.5t car/trailer combos or whether they will now be able to travel at same speed as rest of traffic. Ditto lorries.

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:43 pm 
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niemeyjt wrote:
We have discussed elsewhere the utter stupidity of the French trailer rules - however in this case I wonder whether there will be a similar reduction by 10 KPH on speed limits for >3.5t car/trailer combos or whether they will now be able to travel at same speed as rest of traffic. Ditto lorries.

J


Since we first drove in France trailer and caravan combos have had no trouble sticking to the limit of <50 KPH below the national limits (Usually in close order convoy). Is this going to change?
Lorries are usually pretty good at keeping up with the flow and not tailgating.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Oh I forgot to mention : If the combination of trailer and tower are manifestly unsafe the reverse applies.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Provost wrote:
Since we first drove in France trailer and caravan combos have had no trouble sticking to the limit of <50 KPH below the national limits (Usually in close order convoy). Is this going to change?
Lorries are usually pretty good at keeping up with the flow and not tailgating.


That will be interesting to see - will cars+trailers > 3.5 tons be able to do 80 KPH still - or just 70. Ditto lorries.

We have discussed elsewhere lorries "keeping up with the flow" by overtaking those travelling at 0.1KPH slower - although that is normally on dual lane dual carriageways.

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:01 pm 
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niemeyjt wrote:
Provost wrote:
Since we first drove in France trailer and caravan combos have had no trouble sticking to the limit of <50 KPH below the national limits (Usually in close order convoy). Is this going to change?
Lorries are usually pretty good at keeping up with the flow and not tailgating.


That will be interesting to see - will cars+trailers > 3.5 tons be able to do 80 KPH still - or just 70. Ditto lorries.

We have discussed elsewhere lorries "keeping up with the flow" by overtaking those travelling at 0.1KPH slower - although that is normally on dual lane dual carriageways.

J

Perhaps you missed this :( the limit of <50 KPH below the national limits ) they may be able but go <50 KPH slower!


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Provost wrote:
niemeyjt wrote:
Provost wrote:
Since we first drove in France trailer and caravan combos have had no trouble sticking to the limit of <50 KPH below the national limits (Usually in close order convoy). Is this going to change?
Lorries are usually pretty good at keeping up with the flow and not tailgating.


That will be interesting to see - will cars+trailers > 3.5 tons be able to do 80 KPH still - or just 70. Ditto lorries.

We have discussed elsewhere lorries "keeping up with the flow" by overtaking those travelling at 0.1KPH slower - although that is normally on dual lane dual carriageways.

J

Perhaps you missed this :( the limit of <50 KPH below the national limits ) they may be able but go <50 KPH slower!


I missed something, certainly.

Currently the car limit on a singla carriageway is 90, soon to be 80. A lorry has a limit of 80. My query related to the new limit for lorries and trailers. "<50" has nothing to do with it!

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:36 pm 
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OK, I give in, the point I was trying to make was some vehicles are travelling far too slowly (OR inconsiderately) now on RNs and the thought of making them even slower is for me a problem. The same for when they travel above the speed that is safe.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:15 am 
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A speed limit is just that - a limit not a target ! That said, it's frustrating being behind someone doing 70 or less on a 90 stretch, particularly if there's a solid line. Changing 90 to 80 will not stop people tailgating, nor will it make one iota of difference to the nerds who travel everywhere at the same speed.

Spardo wrote:
As regards speed limits, it doesn't bother me one iota if they reduce the limit on single carriageway roads, if only they would stop the ridiculous up and down limits without fair warning.

I agree, Spardo - round here, not only do the speed limits change frequently, but they are not always evident (hidden by trees and shrubbery) or even in place ! There's a section of barely 100m between the ending of a 70 limit and the start of the urban 50 where presumably you can whizz up to 90.

Last week we noticed a new 70 section on a D road - will this automatically be updated on a GPS ? I suspect many will totally ignore it, probably not even registering its presence !


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:14 am 
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This discussion prompted me to check the light trailer limits in France, something I haven't thought about before.

However, since being stopped by Devon and Cornwall police a couple of years ago and informed that the light trailer limit in UK was 60mph, I have kept to that, or thereabouts, 100 km/hr, in France too and found it most useful. Faster than the lorries but slower than the cars.

I now find that the actual limit is the same as it is for single cars.

I won't be changing, except downwards if the new limits come into force. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:37 am 
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Spardo wrote:
This discussion prompted me to check the light trailer limits in France, something I haven't thought about before.

However, since being stopped by Devon and Cornwall police a couple of years ago and informed that the light trailer limit in UK was 60mph, I have kept to that, or thereabouts, 100 km/hr, in France too and found it most useful. Faster than the lorries but slower than the cars.

I now find that the actual limit is the same as it is for single cars.

I won't be changing, except downwards if the new limits come into force. ;)


That is right - and not just light trailers (I assume you mean <500Kg). Completely irrational and unsafe. UK limit is 50 or 60 (single / dual) plus the fast lane restrictions.

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:12 am 
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niemeyjt wrote:
Spardo wrote:
This discussion prompted me to check the light trailer limits in France, something I haven't thought about before.

However, since being stopped by Devon and Cornwall police a couple of years ago and informed that the light trailer limit in UK was 60mph, I have kept to that, or thereabouts, 100 km/hr, in France too and found it most useful. Faster than the lorries but slower than the cars.

I now find that the actual limit is the same as it is for single cars.

I won't be changing, except downwards if the new limits come into force. ;)


That is right - and not just light trailers (I assume you mean <500Kg). Completely irrational and unsafe. UK limit is 50 or 60 (single / dual) plus the fast lane restrictions.

J


The coppers in Cornwall (who had already demonstrated their lack of competance by initially alleging they had clocked me at 80mph, but then backtracking) just said 60 for all light trailers. I had had the cruise set to 110km/hr (66mph) so held my hands up to that but they didn't pursue a charge.

And yes, I agree, 100km/hr is quite fast enough for a trailer, although my Eriba caravan, heavier at the front than at the rear but still under 500kg, is extremely stable. We towed it at 60mph through 60mph crosswinds on the A1 when we first got it and the only thing that moved laterally was the Partner!

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:41 am 
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Spardo wrote:
I think it's a bit harsh to crush a €100,000 plus lorry owned by a possibly totally innocent owner just because some nut he employs in good faith kills people with it.

However, your point is well made and 7 years is way too little for the real perpetrator.

As regards speed limits, it doesn't bother me one iota if they reduce the limit on single carriageway roads, if only they would stop the ridiculous up and down limits without fair warning.

If it does have any effect on speeders, perhaps it may put more of them onto the peages and leave the emptier roads for me. :-?

However, seeing the high number of people who pass me at much faster speeds than the 90 I'm doing, I doubt whether they will take any more notice of lower limits.




I read an article about this crash, apparently the trailer had a break fluid leak. He was doing 90 kms and look at the devastation he caused. (apologies to anyone who knows this family)

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:50 am 
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Brake fluid leak? On a lorry the size of which has been on total air for decades? Sounds a bit strange to me.

Even if it was an air leak, that late model shown, like others for decades, would have spring brakes. That is, the air holds the brakes off, not puts them on. In other words an air leak would force the vehicle to a stop, not allow it to run on to destruction.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 am 
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Spardo wrote:
Brake fluid leak? On a lorry the size of which has been on total air for decades? Sounds a bit strange to me.

From Scooby's posting, it was the trailer with the leak, not the lorry !


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:55 am 
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Blaze wrote:
Spardo wrote:
Brake fluid leak? On a lorry the size of which has been on total air for decades? Sounds a bit strange to me.

From Scoby's posting, it was the trailer with the leak, not the lorry !


Doesn't make any difference. Trailers don't have fluid brakes, either they are light enough to have overrun brakes, or they are heavy enough to have air brakes connected from the lorry's system.

Either way it all sounds a bit fishy to me. And as the original report said the driver was texting, sounds like someone searching desperately for an excuse. Won't get away with that, if that is what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 am 
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Blaze wrote:
From Scoby's posting, it was the trailer with the leak, not the lorry !


Do you mean the car trailer?

Again, for decades car trailers have had over-run brakes - operated by rods and cables - not fluid at all.

But I think all car trailers should be confined to 60 MPH / 90 KPH - with or without brakes - as they tend not to be serviced and maintained to same level as a car (in general) and any impending failure is less obvious to a driver.

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:04 am 
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No the lorry trailor. It was an animal transporter. (Normandy to Bretagne - WHY??? we have loads of animals here)

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:35 am 
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niemeyjt wrote:
Blaze wrote:
From Scoby's posting, it was the trailer with the leak, not the lorry !


Do you mean the car trailer?

Again, for decades car trailers have had over-run brakes - operated by rods and cables - not fluid at all.

But I think all car trailers should be confined to 60 MPH / 90 KPH - with or without brakes - as they tend not to be serviced and maintained to same level as a car (in general) and any impending failure is less obvious to a driver.

J


I agree in principle with you J, but differ slightly in the limits. Light trailers are perfectly capable of safe operation at 90 and 100 km/hr, but then I would say that, wouldn't I?

And to Scooby, what on earth has what it was carrying got to do with it. Someone driving distractedly while pulling a trailer of whatever size and construction hit a car causing devastation.

Any mention of the braking systems of the trailer is irrelevant, either a feeble excuse by a driver, or an ignorant journalist filling copy.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:40 am 
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Lorry trailer - I think as Spardo has explained it is unlikely to be a brake fluid leak as these trailers use air and a system failure applies the brakes not releases them.

But you are absolutely right to show the damage a lorry weighing up to 44 tonnes can do even at 80 KPH. There was a video on various websites this week of an Eddie Stobbard truck where driver fell asleep and some car drivers were lucky to walk away!

Back to my original question - if the limit on such roads for cars is reduced by 10 KPH to 80 KPH will the same apply to lorries or will they still be allowed to do 80 KPH?

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:10 am 
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niemeyjt wrote:
Lorry trailer - I think as Spardo has explained it is unlikely to be a brake fluid leak as these trailers use air and a system failure applies the brakes not releases them.

But you are absolutely right to show the damage a lorry weighing up to 44 tonnes can do even at 80 KPH. There was a video on various websites this week of an Eddie Stobbard truck where driver fell asleep and some car drivers were lucky to walk away!

Back to my original question - if the limit on such roads for cars is reduced by 10 KPH to 80 KPH will the same apply to lorries or will they still be allowed to do 80 KPH?

J

And since when did lorries keep to the limits? I always try to and what happens? They are up my ass trying to get by.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:16 am 
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I think lorry drivers put themselves under pressure to keep to what are sometimes impossible schedules. If they took the breaks and rest they should, they might not want to drop off at the wheel. Spardo will have a far better idea than I but I suspect a lot of lorry drivers push themselves to the limit. I would ask why they feel they have to - they're not machines, and road conditions and traffic may cause delays for which they are not responsible. Surely a driver can't be sacked for being late ? Or does he find it's too late to deal with his load which could have a knock on effect for the rest of his schedule ?


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:58 am 
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Blaze wrote:
I think lorry drivers put themselves under pressure to keep to what are sometimes impossible schedules. If they took the breaks and rest they should, they might not want to drop off at the wheel. Spardo will have a far better idea than I but I suspect a lot of lorry drivers push themselves to the limit. I would ask why they feel they have to - they're not machines, and road conditions and traffic may cause delays for which they are not responsible. Surely a driver can't be sacked for being late ? Or does he find it's too late to deal with his load which could have a knock on effect for the rest of his schedule ?


Your last point Blaze is the most telling one. Missed ferries, missed delivery/loading time slots, everything has to be just in time these days. I have related before the extreme case of arriving 5 minutes late on a Friday afternoon and being told to come back Monday.

As regards tiredness due to missed breaks, I would have thought less likely. The tacho sees all and even the fabled (? because I have never seen one) magnet strategically placed to fool it I am told does not work in these digital days.

There must be some ways round it, but far less likely a cause of fatigue than simply driving very long distances on very boring roads.

As to the 80 km/hr speed limits for lorries on single carriageway roads, I have never seen it enforced and, in fact wouldn't have known it existed but for the suspicion in mind caused by the little stickers on the back. As far as I know, most lorry drivers, and gendarmes, consider they are limited solely by the limiters, that is 90 km/hr.

I don't know how many kms Papi does on the roads these days, but I bet it isn't as many as the 80,000 a year I do, and I more often follow, or are followed by, heavies doing less than 90 than otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Looks like it's coming in July?

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:50 am 
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Spardo wrote:
The tacho sees all and even the fabled (? because I have never seen one) magnet strategically placed to fool it I am told does not work in these digital days.


I was on a coach trip in the late 70s just after these had become compulsory. The driver found that the insertion of a polo mint worked a treat - just the right size to fit over the circular tacho under the speedometer (as I recall - though I was probably only about 9 or 10 at the time) and allow him to determine exactly what speed was being logged.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:32 am 
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AndrewRose wrote:

I was on a coach trip in the late 70s just after these had become compulsory. The driver found that the insertion of a polo mint worked a treat - just the right size to fit over the circular tacho under the speedometer (as I recall - though I was probably only about 9 or 10 at the time) and allow him to determine exactly what speed was being logged.


As a means of hiding the actual speed from the recording, I have heard of that too, but far more serious were the measures to mask hours.

I have no personal knowledge of either method, as a (almost) lone advocate of tachos I was hardly likely to try and subvent them, was I?

I have always said though, that if they were such a good idea for lorries, why not for all vehicles? A lorry crashing into something causes much more damage, is the usual response, but something small crashing into a lorry can result in equal catastrophe.

I would welcome a tacho in the car, but have to settle for the dashcam for defence, but my auto electrician said the other day you can have one to work on 12 volt. I rather doubt that, but even if you could where on earth would you fit it? They are quite big lumps, although the latest digital ones may be much smaller.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:49 am 
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Spardo wrote:
I would welcome a tacho in the car, but have to settle for the dashcam for defence, but my auto electrician said the other day you can have one to work on 12 volt. I rather doubt that, but even if you could where on earth would you fit it? They are quite big lumps, although the latest digital ones may be much smaller.


And yet their use is illegal in parts of Europe.

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:04 pm 
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As a manager of a distribution depot back in the 70's, I remember well the introduction of Tachographs and their creation of worry both among drivers and the supervisors tasked with checking them. I was always keen to ensure things were done properly as I guessed that subsequent results of Inspector visits should they be not very good would fall on me. We had no problem with cheating the hours etc. but the problems were mainly getting used to understanding and checking properly but it all settled down. The main benefit is for the HGV drivers and long haul and it is here where the "benefits" of cheating are more apparent.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:09 pm 
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niemeyjt wrote:
Spardo wrote:
I would welcome a tacho in the car, but have to settle for the dashcam for defence, but my auto electrician said the other day you can have one to work on 12 volt. I rather doubt that, but even if you could where on earth would you fit it? They are quite big lumps, although the latest digital ones may be much smaller.


And yet their use is illegal in parts of Europe.

J


I expect you mean dashcams, not tachos?

When I went across Germany and Austria to Hungary I researched all this and the results were conflicting, for both dashcams and SatNavs. In the end, after finding and disabling the GPS speed camera warning, I just carried on as normal. My GPS didn't work in Slovakia and Hungary anyway, apart from showing me which way was north.

The objection to dashcams seems to be on privacy grounds, and I assume for this reason there is no Google Streets coverage in Germany for instance.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Spardo wrote:
niemeyjt wrote:
Spardo wrote:
I would welcome a tacho in the car, but have to settle for the dashcam for defence, but my auto electrician said the other day you can have one to work on 12 volt. I rather doubt that, but even if you could where on earth would you fit it? They are quite big lumps, although the latest digital ones may be much smaller.


And yet their use is illegal in parts of Europe.

J


I expect you mean dashcams, not tachos?

When I went across Germany and Austria to Hungary I researched all this and the results were conflicting, for both dashcams and SatNavs. In the end, after finding and disabling the GPS speed camera warning, I just carried on as normal. My GPS didn't work in Slovakia and Hungary anyway, apart from showing me which way was north.

The objection to dashcams seems to be on privacy grounds, and I assume for this reason there is no Google Streets coverage in Germany for instance.


Sorry - yes, dashcams. As you say - privacy. Was looking at some of the Swiss Dashcam Youtube footage (pretty mild stuff) with a colleague (Swiss) and he said even recording unblurred plates and faces is illegal - not when they are played on Youtube.

J


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Limits coming
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:18 pm 
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With the development of autonomous vehicles all the tachos and dashcams could be consigned to history. Hopefully then we can get rid of speed humps.

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