It is currently Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:41 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
Just before we went away last week I had one of my photo backup external disk go toes-up!

I was erasing it to reformat it for another job and its little light just kept on flashing. I tried several diffferent things like banging it on the desk (only kidding Undecided) trying it in another caddy, trying another HD in its caddy, but nowt worked. So I put mt IBM head on and took it to bits. The lid was a bit difficult, but the platters and head came off fine, :-bd

Image

but it still doesn't work x_x x_x

OK, that lot up there is tounge in cheek, BUT what I really want to put over is deadly serious. Hard disks can and do fail with NO warning and although you can sometimes get your data off most times you loose everything on there. It is SO very important to back up EVERYTHING that is dear to you.

Once gone they are gone for good if you don't have copies! In the 18 years I was employed by IBM that was the most frequent thing I tried to drill into my customers. On the small mainframes I spent most of my time repairing the Data Processing manager was probably the Financial Director or someone else who had never seen a computer before and unless the company sent him/her on a course on the machine I installed the poor sod looking after it often had no idea. I cound not give him/her very much help other than try to drill in the mantra of backup, backup, backup!

I have several external hard disks purely for copies of my photos. I have thousands. I also have 2 system backup disks, just in case. I use Carbon Copt Cloner for my system backups. It is only for Macs, it costs just a few ££ and if my systen disk fails then I can change the failed disk, boot from my last CCC backup and just reload the complete system, everything! No having to put any settings in, just wait an hour or so and start using it again. There's also Time Machine on Macs whaich does all the data and programmes but not the system.

Sorry if i'm trying to teach the more geeky amongst us, but it is just si very important to learn if you don't know!

Now? Where's me funny 'ead =:) ?

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 9955
Location: Alpes-Maritimes
I would also recommend backing up your important files to the cloud as a belt and braces exercise. That way if the worst happens like a robbery or fire you still have your data. I have 1TB on OneDrive and backup all my non-system files to it. It just happens in the background. First time it will take a long time, after that it's only additions/changes. It also costs peanuts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:08 pm
Posts: 2526
Location: Basel and Suffolk
In addition, I would recommend ensuring there is some way to get at password protected files once you are gone - otherwise all your family photos protected by a fiendish password only you know will not get passed down to future generations.

J


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:08 am
Posts: 2444
Location: Ardeche
Data "lost" on a dead HD can usually be recovered - at a price - by one of the expert companies that specialise in such things.
However I do subscribe to regular back ups despite the above statement. But if the worst comes to the worst, it is good to know that you can probably get your data back from a failed drive.

_________________
Andy


For every problem there is a solution that is simple, quick ..............and wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
As you state "at a price" and from what I have heard that price can be quite high. A lot more than an HD and it takes time too.

Much easier, cheaper and faster to do simple backups. I don't know what's available for Windoze as I ditched them about 8 years back, but there has to be good stuff there too, I suppose :- :-

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:08 pm
Posts: 2526
Location: Basel and Suffolk
If you buy a Western Digital hard disk you can download a cut-down version of Acronis Backup.

I currently use WD MyBooks with the full Acronis - the advantage of that is you can do incremental backups rather than copying everything everytime.

J


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:08 am
Posts: 2444
Location: Ardeche
Jonzjob wrote:
As you state "at a price" and from what I have heard that price can be quite high. A lot more than an HD and it takes time too.

Much easier, cheaper and faster to do simple backups. I don't know what's available for Windoze as I ditched them about 8 years back, but there has to be good stuff there too, I suppose :- :-


Totally agree JJ. When mine failed (the morning I did or better said was due to do my monthly back up) it cost the company over 700€ about 10 years ago. I did however make the post for those who do forget to make such backups - and if it were your daughter's wedding photos that had not been backed up, what would you pay to get them back?? Just as an example.

But certainly regular back ups are safer and cheaper.

_________________
Andy


For every problem there is a solution that is simple, quick ..............and wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:58 pm
Posts: 1146
Location: Norwich, Anglia de l'est et la république de francophilie
I use 2 RAID disks (WD red) in a Synology NAS drive (also holds music and some videos) so if one disk crashes the contents are mirrored on the remaining drive.

_________________
"It's turtles all the way down".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
Both CCC and Time M/c do the incremental backups. The first is a long job, but the rest are quite quick.

Time M/c default does a backup in the back ground every hour, but I don't need that and it is very easy to change.

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:08 pm
Posts: 2526
Location: Basel and Suffolk
One other thought to be really cheery - if your house burns down, will you lose your backups?

One option to address this risk is the cloud - though the last time I priced it I could buy several hard disks per year for the cost of a cloud subscription.

Another is to store some of your backup off site - maybe with a friend / neighbour (my approach).

J


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 9955
Location: Alpes-Maritimes
There are plenty of cloud offerings that are pretty reasonable. I do it through a family subscription to Office 365 for €100 which provides office for 5 users with 1TB per user plus some Skype time every month. Each user can install on PC's/Mac/tablets and phone. The kids are both apple users, but the software runs on Apple as well. So that's €20 per user per year - peanuts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 2744
Location: Le Périgord Vert (24)
I use 2 Sonnics external drives, but, as both are connected to the computer would lose evrything in a fire. Still working on that.

I had 2 other Sonnics where I stored all the photos (dogs), both 1TB, but one failed and I haven't replaced it. I must buy another one and keep it safe from fire, but where? That isn't connected to the computer but each time I plug it in to refer to something I do worry that it might fail.

_________________
Salut, David.

http://longdistancedogdiary.weebly.com/index.html - Transporting dogs, anywhere

The Phoenix Association - dedicated to caring for lost and abandoned animals


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 957
Location: 46
Some good advice and yes, hard drives can fail in the blink of an eye and it's far from uncommon to switch a machine off one day then come back the next day only to find it completely goosed when you switch back on.

The cloud sounds like a reasonable idea until you realise that it's as much use as a pair of chocolate underpants in the desert when your upload speed is a half a mb/s, my photo collection currently stands just shy of 100gb and my music is over 160gb, I doubt I'll be alive long enough to upload that !

I would not use imaging to back up data either, or at least not as a primary or sole strategy, image files themselves can become corrupt and that's something you'll only find out about when you try to recover one and it falls flat on it's face. Photos and media files don't compress much anyway so there is very little advantage in imaging them space wise.

As for password protection or encryption I'm afraid you'll need to help me out on that, I mean why on earth would anybody feel the need to apply either of those to stuff like family photos or other non sensitive files or documents, to what purpose :-?

JJ: File backup on Windows is as simple as drag-&-drop and even on a 5 year old i3 laptop restoring the OS via Acronis (~50gb) only takes about 15 minutes, I had no idea Crapples were that slow :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:05 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:01 am
Posts: 5074
Location: St. Méard de Gurçon, West Dordogne
If a drive is dying on you, you can sometimes recover data from it by chilling it in the fridge before connecting it. I've used this technique in the past to rescue data from drives that would otherwise refuse to be read. After a few minutes it'll fail again but you've hopefully got a short window to grab the essentials. Be aware that this time window gets shorter every time so prioritise!

Sounds bonkers I know but I got it from a computer shop here in France and they were right - in many cases it works.

_________________
Andrew Rose


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 2744
Location: Le Périgord Vert (24)
AndrewRose wrote:
If a drive is dying on you, you can sometimes recover data from it by chilling it in the fridge before connecting it. I've used this technique in the past to rescue data from drives that would otherwise refuse to be read. After a few minutes it'll fail again but you've hopefully got a short window to grab the essentials. Be aware that this time window gets shorter every time so prioritise!

Sounds bonkers I know but I got it from a computer shop here in France and they were right - in many cases it works.


Good advice no doubt, Andrew, but not much help in recovering 1TB of dog photos. :lol:

_________________
Salut, David.

http://longdistancedogdiary.weebly.com/index.html - Transporting dogs, anywhere

The Phoenix Association - dedicated to caring for lost and abandoned animals


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
My Synology NAS box is my own cloud. I don't trust or like iCloud or any other come to think of it.

Situation. No interweb connection, system goes booby bits up and all yer data is in a cloud just as unreachable as the ones that dump water on you. How do you get yer data back? I'll stick with an external HDD and my NAS box. If you are determined to have yer house burnt down then a fireproof safe would be a good investment.

Thinking of house burning down and loosing data and saving it all in the clous? Where do you store your passport and housei nsurance papers? In the cloud :-

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 9955
Location: Alpes-Maritimes
Jonzjob wrote:
My Synology NAS box is my own cloud. I don't trust or like iCloud or any other come to think of it.

Situation. No interweb connection, system goes booby bits up and all yer data is in a cloud just as unreachable as the ones that dump water on you. How do you get yer data back? I'll stick with an external HDD and my NAS box. If you are determined to have yer house burnt down then a fireproof safe would be a good investment.

Thinking of house burning down and loosing data and saving it all in the clous? Where do you store your passport and housei nsurance papers? In the cloud :-


It is quite simply assessing the risk and putting measures in place to help mitigate the risk. If you have your data stored in a cloud datacenter somewhere and a copy at home on a backup then the chances of both blowing up at the same time would signal the end of the planet. An internet connection can always be fixed and passports can be renewed, precious personal photographs and documents cannot. I've got 150GB of the stuff floating around and I have it stored at home, the cloud and on my own hosted web-site. I can't afford to lose it.

A bigger concern is future proofing your data. Lot's of people saved data on floppy disks and thought they would be OK, what will you do with a hard disk or DVD/CD that becomes obsolete?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
"A bigger concern is future proofing your data. Lot's of people saved data on floppy disks and thought they would be OK, what will you do with a hard disk or DVD/CD that becomes obsolete?"

Copy it to what ever takes over the next step. As Ernie said, on a slow internet connection, about 1 meg, it would take more time than I have to upload my 147 gig of photos. I do what I can and I am happy with that. I have already moved a step up that data ladder by fitting a500 gig SSD as the system disk in this MacBook Pro. It int 'arf quick booting and opening applications :shock:

The SSHD hybrid 1tb jobbie has been moved to where the CD/DVD read/writer was and I now have 2 disks in it. Sys on the SSD and data on the SSHD. Good 'ere init 8-)

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 957
Location: 46
x2 although hard drives, or shall we say the means to access and read from them, are not going to be disappearing any time soon and probably not in most of our lifetimes.

CD's/DVD's are likely to be around for a good few years yet also but they are too fragile and volatile to rely on for anything other than short term backups of low value data.

Physically separating backups so they don't all get lost or destroyed in one event is such a no brainer that it shouldn't even need saying.

BTW, I've still got an external USB floppy drive and it works perfectly even in Windows 10, I really must be more ruthless in my clear outs !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
When I fitted the SSD I put the old SSHD into a special caddy that fits in the CD/DVD position and along with the caddy kit came another caddy for the CD 'Superdrive' as Apple call it. So that sits alongside the MacBook. I still use it to give out photos of our walking groupe, village events, etc.

As you say, CDs are not as good as they were supposed to be, but then again, what is?

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 957
Location: 46
I've got one of those which I plan to put into 'er indoors laptop in the near future, it's already got an SSD.

I have a CD/DVD drive in my desktop PC and if I did happen to need to use it I could simply share it across the network but TBH I can't actually envisage any situation in which I would have to do that as it's quicker and easier to create a bootable USB stick with an ISO image on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:57 pm
Posts: 209
A RAID is not really a backup, even if it has a snapshot of the computer hard disks and isn't updated continuously. It is just online storage associated with one or more computers. However, a RAID, if properly configured gives you some online redundancy in the case of disk failure.

A backup should be stored away from the computer. I have two local backup disks (updated weekly) which are stored in separate places (one in an outbuilding, another in a safe). I also have another backup disk stored well away from my house (actually in the UK). That gets updated everytime I go to the UK; I take one of the local disks to replace it and bring the other back for use as a local backup.

As has been said, cloud storage isn't really very useful for individuals except for a few important files or just for current files. The upload speeds are too slow to make the initial archive. My backup disks now have well over 1TB data from three computers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
The form that I have is mirroring which is a system that writes all files to both disks and it is updated as if they are a single disk. Therefore you have, as it says, a mirror of each other.

There are different types of raid

RAID levels

RAID 0 - based on striping. This RAID level doesn't provide fault tolerance but increases the system performance (high read and write speed).
RAID 1 - utilizes mirroring technique, increases read speed in some cases, and provides fault tolerance in the loss of no more than one member disk.
RAID 0+1 - based on the combination of striping and mirroring techniques. This RAID level inherits RAID 0 performance and RAID 1 fault tolerance.
RAID1E - uses both striping and mirroring techniques, can survive a failure of one member disk or any number of nonadjacent disks. There are three subtypes of RAID 1E layout: near, interleaved, and far. More information and diagrams on the RAID 1E page.
RAID 5 - utilizes both striping and parity techniques. Provides the read speed improvement as in RAID 0 approximately, survives the loss of one RAID member disk.
RAID 5E - a variation of RAID 5 layout the only difference of which is an integrated spare space allowing to rebuild a failed array immediately in case of a disk failure. Read more on the RAID5E page.
RAID 5 with delayed parity - pretty similar to basic RAID 5 layout, but uses nonstandard scheme of striping. More information about RAID5 with delayed parity.
RAID 6 - similar to RAID 5 but uses two different parity functions. The read speed is the same as in RAID 5.

:-\

It is now much more through than when I first installed it back in the late 80s. Backups on the IBM AS400 was even more essential as when the system wrote to the disks it was blazingly fast because it split all the files into 2k packets and spread the 'packets' over all of the disks. So, if you lost one disk you lost something of every file on the system. But with backups this was not a problem and it was a very good and fast system.

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 957
Location: 46
As much as they might convince themselves to the contrary no home user has any need of a RAID array of whatever flavour !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:08 pm
Posts: 2526
Location: Basel and Suffolk
ErnieY wrote:
As much as they might convince themselves to the contrary no home user has any need of a RAID array of whatever flavour !


I know gamers who would disagree with you and swear RAID 0 is faster.

And for those using the WD MyCloud - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/08 ... abilities/

J


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:50 pm
Posts: 5233
Location: somewhere in the "pays de dropt"
When forming a laundry room with a block wall, at the back of our v,large garage I let into the floor before tiling a plastic box of the type found in all diy stores.
Into this for safety are important documents etc, a number of USB sticks and DVDs with stuff on them.
As it's tiled over its fire and theft proof.

_________________
Ex nihilo nihil fit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Failed external HDD
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Minervois Nr Carcassonne 11
The early 'blacvk boxes' the R.A.F. Britannias, Comet 2s and 4Cs and lots of other types, recorded onto a stainless steel wire. That was housed in a resin box with a GRP case. The idea was that in the event of a crash and fire the resin would melt in the heat and form over the wire and the GRP box would give a lot of shock protection. Then when the box was recovered the resin lump would be chucked into a vat of nasty stuff, probably acitone, that would desolve the resin and leave the wire intact so that it could be checked to find out what happened. I fitted and checked and tested lotsof them in my time working oon those aircraft and happily never had to check one after a 'bump'!

As for 'mirroring' I was certainly gald when I had a 'early life' disk failure on my Synology NAS box Ernie. So you pays yer money, etc init.

As far as saves are concerned, yes it's a very good idea to put them seperate. So far I have had several diskd fail, but so far the house is still fire free, apart from the one in our lovely chininey :O3 :O3

Edit : - I almost forgot to say that I have no idea why they are called 'black boxes' because they are dayglo orange! I once heard that the safest place to sit on an aircraft is on top of the 'black box' because if that's the only bit they are going to recover it is a good idea for you to be strapped to it :-bd :-bd

_________________
John.
Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else!
My woodturing
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
greenmiles v1.1 designed by CodeMiles Team -TemplatesDragon-.