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 Post subject: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:47 pm 
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I wish I'd asked this months ago, but kept forgetting.

Anyway, the saga continues .... cutting a long story short.

Someone side-dinged my car back in March. Between the "merdes" and "désolées", the other driver readily admitted that he hadn't looked right before pulling out as there was rarely traffic coming from the right, despite it being a regular "D" route. So, almost in slow motion I saw him pulling out just as I was passing him! BANG! The witnesses, as usual, scuttled away and hid!

Part of the damage was a wrecked rear wheel. So, part of the repairs, included in the expert's report was new wheel and tyre. We had bought four new tyres just two months earlier, online.

Bottom line is the garagiste could not find the same tyre using his suppliers, and he's restricted as to who he can use. So, replaced damaged tyre with next grade up (twice the price we paid). Plus, as the tyres front or back have to match, he had to buy another new tyre for the other side. Not included in the expert's report. We're still fighting as to who should pay for this second tyre. The other guy was 100% at fault and admitted it, but it sounds like he had minimum insurance, so our's could only claim a small proportion of the repair bill from his insurers, and our insurers are saying they have reached the ceiling for this claim so we have to pay for the second tyre ie, 200€

I have offered to pay half, as we do have the benefit of the other nearly new tyre that we could eventually put on the front - if the same tyres are still available. Apparently this is quite a common occurrence as garages can't buy direct online but lots of customers do because it's so much cheaper.

So who pays? I did point out to the garagiste that if he had said early on about a problem of type of tyre, we could have bought another one ourselves and claimed it back.

I'm angry, and stuck between garagiste and insurers who won't budge. Why should I be out of pocket for a reckless driver who doesn't look before pulling out? ARGGGHHHHHHHH!

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Can I suggest that you seek an opinion from one of the lawyers giving free legal advice at the permanence juridique in St. Yrieix? Irrespective of "minimum (3rd party) insurance", I suspect your pranger will be liable for all the consequential loss. Get some sort of statement too as to the above from your garagiste.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Just to add, for French vehicles I understand that tyres on the same axle must match - and this has been interpreted as being the same make and style, not just size and construction.

It may strengthen your case if you are able to say that two tyres were required by law. Just a thought.

Good Luck.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:32 pm 
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MAD87 wrote:
Can I suggest that you seek an opinion from one of the lawyers giving free legal advice at the permanence juridique in St. Yrieix? Irrespective of "minimum (3rd party) insurance", I suspect your pranger will be liable for all the consequential loss. Get some sort of statement too as to the above from your garagiste.


Good call. Thanks! In the meantime I'll tell them that's what I'm doing, so if they're trying to pull a fast one, it might just shut them up! \M/ Odd, as up till now my insurance agent has been very good.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:10 am 
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Bayleaf wrote:
the other driver readily admitted that he hadn't looked right before pulling out as there was rarely traffic coming from the right,



jeez!! what an arsehole.

Can't help you with legalities but FFS there could've been a kid on a scooter.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:39 am 
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I wonder who you are with, insurance wise, because I had a small mini caravan split in two due to poor design and workmanship and, although the trailer was only 3rd party itself, after a request for the name of an expert to inspect it, my Aviva agent, Bordes, insisted on going through the Protection Juridique department in Paris first.

In the face of my reluctance, I ignored several requests for details, they persevered and eventually paid for an expert who produced a damning 23 page report together with photos.

This, together with my threat of legal action, made the makers in England pay every penny claimed in full. This included the hire of a trailer to collect the wreckage from the Pyrenees, the purchase of a brand new French trailer, and the work required to transfer the old caravan body to it. Took a year though.

Not much help I know, unless you are with Aviva, but if you are, encouragement to insist on all possibilites from them. If not, and you get no joy, perhaps a tip for the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Bayleaf wrote:
it sounds like he had minimum insurance, so our's could only claim a small proportion of the repair bill from his insurers, and our insurers are saying they have reached the ceiling for this claim so we have to pay for the second tyre ie, 200€
I've never heard anything so ridiculous !

Minimum insurance means full and (practically) unlimited liability for damage or injury to 3rd parties, they can't just say '€xxx if enough and after that you're on your own' !

Policies necessarily have to cover potential claims of several hundreds of thousands simply because nobody can say what might happen or how much it might cost to put right.

If they insist on playing silly buggers then send the hussiers to the other drivers house with a bill for every last penny of your non reimbursed losses and expenses, I'll guarantee his first phone in response will be to his insurer to demand to know why he's getting the bill personally.

Are you sure there isn't something you're not telling us though, an inflated repair price or some betterment for instance ?


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:13 am 
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ErnieY wrote:

If they insist on playing silly buggers then send the hussiers to the other drivers house with a bill for every last penny of your non reimbursed losses and expenses,

I agree with your general remark, but 'sending in the huissiers' is not an option unless you've got a few hundred yoyos to spare.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:19 am 
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Ernie, thanks for supporting my thoughts that I should not pay. But I am keeping nothing from you. I didn't ask for different tyres. In fact, I said to the mechanic that if he had said at the beginning that he couldn't find the sme type of tyre from his suppliers, we would have gladly bought one from our online supplier, and got reimbursement ourselves. The tyres were practically new.

I didn't ask for embellishment of any kind, thanks! I just wanted my car back as it was, which took nearly six months thanks to impetent experts, suppliers, repair work and general apathy all round it seemed. I gave the work to our local mechanic, being handy to us, but said I would be happy to get it taken (as it was undriveable) straight to a Subaru garage. Hindsight is a word I refuse to use anymore, as it's pointless. As an aside point, my agent asked if I was able to recuperate the TVA element of the bill (nearly 3 000€ inc. second tyre)! A subaru is not a utility vehicle! Duh!

The mechanic is writing a note for me to take to the permanence juridique, and I have told my insurance agent this. I think there is generally something fishy going on, as I am also havng problems with the agent coughing up for repairs to our work premises, which was damaged by the tempete back in February. What with that and several admin cockups (ever since his daughter has started working for him), it's been a year of unnecessary stress, and none of it my fault, but most French don't apologise or like admitting they're wrong. Apart from the poor guy who hit me, who repeatedly said "desoleé, merde, j'ai pas regardé á droite car il y a egalement personne qui arrive á droite!!!"

At least I feel more confident fighting my corner now, thanks to support from you guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:21 am 
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That said, I know where the guy lives. His wrecked car sits rotting in his garden. I could explain the problem regarding the second tyre and ask him to talk directly to his insurers as mine is obviously being an arse!

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:29 am 
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We went to the CLCV (a bit like the Citizens' Advice Bureau) when we had problems with an insurance company - very helpful and they offer legal help.
Hope it gets sorted out, Bayleaf ...
Just out of interest, does your own car insurance cover you in the event of the other driver having no insurance ? That is a huge problem in France - uninsured drivers :(


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:37 am 
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It is toute risque, and the other driver said his insurers would cover my costs but not his, hence his car is now a garden ornament. I even got 15 days free car hire included in mine, which I didn't expect. As it turned out, I needed several months worth, so ended up driving the mechanic's wife's cruddy fiat people wagon, which she wasn't happy about but she still had her lovely little alfa romeo to use! I guess toute risque is as it says, including free windscreen replacement.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:19 am 
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Blaze wrote:
Just out of interest, does your own car insurance cover you in the event of the other driver having no insurance ? That is a huge problem in France - uninsured drivers :(
Every EU member state has an equivalent to the UK's MIB which exists to cover such circumstances, in France it's https://www.fondsdegarantie.fr/en/home-2/ which is even in English bless them :ymhug:

Wonder how (or if) that will work after Brexit ?

Once UK falls out of the EU motor insurance directive I can't see insurers taking long before demanding that drivers heading across the water buy a green card like they used to do in the old days, maybe the Spanish bail bond will make a come back too.

Quick thought: Brexit might also put an end to importing second hand cars from UK and getting a free pass when obtaining a quitus fiscale.

After so long enjoying all the subtle and unspoken benefits of EU membership I think more than a few have some rude awakenings coming their way.

I can't help being reminded of this:



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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:29 am 
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Thanks for the link, Ernie - I can't remember all the ins and outs of our car insurance. We deal directly with the company who paid up without a murmur for 2 claims (one was on the house insurance). The car one was as a result of a complaint contre X.
Yes, Ernie, goodness only knows what may change after Brexit. I am reminded of Catalonians who seem they can have independence on its own terms ... I think they are in for a few surprises.


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:48 am 
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Blaze wrote:
Just out of interest, does your own car insurance cover you in the event of the other driver having no insurance ? That is a huge problem in France - uninsured drivers :(

Is it? so the "you must have a vehicle insured even if it's off the road" policy works well then, well it does for the insurance companies income stream?

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:38 am 
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Teapot wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Just out of interest, does your own car insurance cover you in the event of the other driver having no insurance ? That is a huge problem in France - uninsured drivers :(

Is it? so the "you must have a vehicle insured even if it's off the road" policy works well then, well it does for the insurance companies income stream?



Not really. We have had a 3 wheel scooter motor powered van off the road since 2009 (when the rules changed regarding registration) and initially our insurance company insisted that we must still have it insured.

We refused............and heard no more. :o :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Insurance companies sell insurance, they do not enforce the law so while they can stamp their feet and insist on what they like they cannot compel you to do anything.

You're supposed to have insurance on a laid up car to cover anybody hurting themselves on it and I think it may also act as absolute minimum cover in case it was a driver and got stolen and involved in an accident. I't's not for normal road use though.

If you ever wanted to resurrect a vehicle and put it back on the road then without an uninterrupted insurance record you will likely face major problems with re-insuring it, you may even have to enact a token sale to a 3rd party then 'buy' it back.


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance claim query after road accident
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Is it therefore law? or just a sales gimmick like selling two tyres at a time?
Obviously from the previous post I was surprised the un insured was a problem in france because everything has to be insured always type of rule.

Interesting that a lapse in insurance can create an insurance issue later if you want a vehicle back on the road as that is the sort of barrier to returning to proper behaviour that often creates the very issue the authorities are trying to stop :-s

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