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 Post subject: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Location: somewhere in the "pays de dropt"
This piece is written to maybe help any one who has lost a husband/wife/partner and where debts are involved.

An acquaintance of ours separated from her husband four years ago but did NOT divorce him, and in fact had not seen or spoken to him for over three years.
The said husband was self employed as a builder and registered here and has just died.
Because their property was purchased “en tontine” she becomes the outright owner, any other regime and it would be shared with his children. The rest of the estate, here known as “the inheritance” (both monies/insurances, anything owned by him and any debts) has to be shared between herself and his children from a previous marriage.

Because she had not seen him or spoken to him in the time they were separated the Notaire advised her to “refuse the inheritance” saying that there is no way that she can know what will come out of the woodwork over the next ten years in the form of debts, insurance claims, his tax returns etc.
He also advised her to never answer any letters sent in his name, just send them back with “deceased” and the date written on them. If she were to reply then she would be accepting liability and could be inundated with demands in his name.

Should his children also refuse their inheritance then the state takes over all of his insurances, bank credits etc. and goods, which are sold at auction to clear debts.

The tontine clause meant that the house became hers 100% and by refusing the inheritance she does not find herself responsible for debts she did not know about – as the notaire said, why should she pay when she signed no documents.

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:40 pm 
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maybe this could be made a sticky i think it is so important


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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Very interesting. When you speak of insurance claims I'm guessing you refer to decennial, yes?
Surely as the builder, and payee of the insurance, has passed away is it not for the insurance company to pay any claims not his widow?
And presumably any life insurances should now pay out, be they direct life insurance or insurances against loans etc.

I'm a cynical bugger and just have to wonder if the notaire has another agenda?

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Location: somewhere in the "pays de dropt"
I assume that you are quite right as far as insurances are concerned stoffy

But no matter what the insurances are why should someone who has had no contact for a number of years be responsible or hounded, which they would be,. In fact the person involved has already had a phone call from an ex client of her deceased husband saying that there's a problem and wants to make a claim on his insurance, as I said its got nothing to do with her.
the Notaire in question was recommended by two friends whom he had helped a lot when other notaires were being very unhelpful.
Yes we are alike being cynical but this has been all done and dusted.

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:52 pm 
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mojo wrote:
maybe this could be made a sticky i think it is so important



Good idea mojo.

Your wish is my command!! ^:)^

;;)

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Location: not too far from St.Yrieix la perche and ladingac le long
Yes!!

when you inherit in france you get it all and you can't accept only part of it and not another!!!
Example of this my parents in law, they wanted to give their house to their children!! Good thought when first thinking BUT when you think of it ...as part of their belongings, it is included in all of it!! then you get the headache that 3 adult children share the house.
what happens if part want to sell?, or the roof needs a repair? what if one uses it alot more than another?

Not only that but as a inheritance it is tacked on to yours after!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :o forever, unles less all agree that means 9 grandchildren inherit their part of the house So mine would own one /nineteenth of a house!!! How would they like to recieve a bill for something they didn't even want but now is attached to us? IF they accept our in heritance :D they can't even enjoy what we would like to have them accept! and it goes on to their childrens children ect!

Yes in a perfect world, one of first adults buys the parts of the other's..but when my parents in-law dies our anwser will be no thank you...too much headache!! Not only that you can't give your part away to another person...like to a sister, nope, illegal for a euro symbolic..all or nothing and everything attached.
Obreynne :-??

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:26 am 
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I've moved this to Admin, Legal, Finance and Insurance because "inheritance" comes under this section.

Blaze


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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Blaze wrote:
I've moved this to Admin, Legal, Finance and Insurance because "inheritance" comes under this section.

Blaze



Thanks Blaze, got it wrong again.
I knew that I'd put in in the wrong place

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:58 pm 
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No worries, Papi - it takes 2 seconds to move it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:01 am 
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Papibryn wrote:
This piece is written to maybe help any one who has lost a husband/wife/partner and where debts are involved.

An acquaintance of ours separated from her husband four years ago but did NOT divorce him, and in fact had not seen or spoken to him for over three years.
.


Hi!

In case of separation in France, in order to avoid being responsible for the future bills of your spouse, it is essential to make a " déclaration de séparation de corps ". That is done by a lawyer.

Service Public Reference:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... F980.xhtml

Yours,

pom


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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:27 am 
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Just to clarify a point, an inheritance can be fully or partially accepted, or simply refused.
There are other provisions of the code civil protecting heirs from the effects of the deceased's debts. I'd say this notaire gave sound advice in the circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:22 am 
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Oh Mad!! I didn't know that!! I have obviously been given bad advice How can you partially refuse? thank you , Obreynne

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:24 am 
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Obreynne wrote:
Oh Mad!! I didn't know that!! I have obviously been given bad advice How can you partially refuse? thank you , Obreynne


Not necessarily, it's all rather complicated and the more potential heirs, the more weighing-up of advantages/disadvantages is needed.

An heir may either accept or reject devolution of the estate, or accept only the net assets thereof so as to be liable only for any testamentary debts up to the value of assets received...

The consequences of accepting the entire estate (in toto) render an heir personally liable without limit for any estate debts.

Article 786, Code Civil:

An heir accepting in toto may not thereafter waive or partially accept devolution. However, he may request to be wholly or partially freed from his obligation concerning an estate debt he had no knowledge of on acceptance, if the payment of such debt would result in severely burdening his personal assets. The heir must commence the action within five months from the date he became aware of the existence and amount of the debt.

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Obreynne wrote:
Oh Mad!! I didn't know that!! I have obviously been given bad advice How can you partially refuse? thank you , Obreynne


Hi!

This is what he meant with the 3 options: :

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 1199.xhtml

You can choose to inherit up up to the limit of total debts.

See the : Effets de l'acceptation à concurrence de l'actif net

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... tml#N10173

Yours,

Yours,

pom

If you need a rough Google English translation you can copy the link or the text you need in the following box

http://translate.google.fr/?client=fire ... fr&tab=wT#

NB. For an exact translation, especially in administrative matters, you may need the help of an expert, to do an exact translation.)


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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Location: not too far from St.Yrieix la perche and ladingac le long
Thank you!! My problem isn't debts it is the idea of owning a part of a house we will never use nor do we want to have to pay for repairs...if to be eventually repaired by the others.... :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Obreynne wrote:
Thank you!! My problem isn't debts it is the idea of owning a part of a house we will never use nor do we want to have to pay for repairs...if to be eventually repaired by the others.... :-?


Hi!

So you mean that several people will own the house. This is what is called " indivision" in France.
Nobody can be forced to stay in " indivision" says the law.
But that is more a less a theory, unless :

2/3 of the owners agree to sell the house
or
one owner is prepared to buy the share of another
or
you go to court, and ask the judge for the house to be sold. ( NB. according to the situation, that will also no work). then the house is auctioned.

Notwithstanding, after a full year after the death, according to the situation, the people living in the house are normally required to pay a rental ( according to local levels, and their share of the property ).

As regards the maintenance cost.

See in the link the rules for engaging costs.

Small costs are as for a tenant, matter of the people living in the premises.
Larger costs, with legal majority, need to be paid by all owners.*

* if for example one does not contribute, then at a next sale or succession, that value will be subject to compensation to be made by the Notaire in the split , by giving him proof documents.

Yours,

pom

Reference:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 1296.xhtml


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 Post subject: Re: Refusal of inheritance.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Location: not too far from St.Yrieix la perche and ladingac le long
Thank you!! My problem is that 2 of the three persons who are set to inherit want to keep this vacation house..using it when they feel like it but we will never use it!

It is a house in the country and we are already doing that 24/7/365...why go 6 hours in the car? Oh well Feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place...thank you again for anwsering Pom! Obreynne

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