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 Post subject: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballons"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:58 pm 
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1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballons", that has just come to my notice

The new regulation, is that a temperature regulator (Mitigeur Thermostatique) needs to be fitted on the hot line from the cylinder, before any "draw off" of hot water, this blends cold water with the hot water to ensure that the temperature of the hot water does not exceed 50°c to avoid scalding, it also allows the water in the cylinder to be stored at a higher temperature, which will avoid any possibility of legionella disease, because the "bugs" die off in water over 65°c, and another benefit is a greater amount of useful hot water before the cylinder runs cold
This new regulation comes into affect for new property and when replacing the cylinder

The recommendation is that an expansion vessel is fitted on the cold inlet, after the groupe de securite, this will take up the expansion of the heated water and stop it from running to waste, they reckon that it could save up to 3000 litres of water being wasted per property a year

Also if renewing a cylinder don't forget the dielectric unions, these are fitted to the inlet and outlet of the cylinder

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:27 pm 
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Thanks for this Peake, it's exactly what I needed as I'm trying to finalise the plumbing system for the extension and making a decision whether or not to DIY or have a company do the HW system and get a bit of 45% back in credit d'impot.

What do you think about plastic pipes ?

Can I send you the devis for materials and you can have a look ? :D

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:57 pm 
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hardworkinghippy wrote:
Thanks for this Peake, it's exactly what I needed as I'm trying to finalise the plumbing system for the extension and making a decision whether or not to DIY or have a company do the HW system and get a bit of 45% back in credit d'impot.

What do you think about plastic pipes ?

I think that it would be best for you to read my "How To" http://thefranceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=13959 nothing like blowing your own trumpet is there :lol:

Can I send you the devis for materials and you can have a look ? :D

If you would like to, I am a bit out of touch with todays prices though, but I could check on them via my son who is an artisan

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:36 pm 
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When did the temperature regulator (Mitigeur Thermostatique) regulation come in ?


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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:43 pm 
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ErnieY wrote:
When did the temperature regulator (Mitigeur Thermostatique) regulation come in ?


ErnieY,

The exact date I am not sure of, I can found out for you if you want, but I have heard vague mutterings about a mitigeure having to be fitted for a year or more now

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:44 pm 
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It would be handy to know but don't go out of your way.

Also I presume the estimate or 3000lt waste per property per annum is a mistake :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm 
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ErnieY wrote:
It would be handy to know but don't go out of your way.

Also I presume the estimate or 3000lt waste per property per annum is a mistake :shock:


No but it could be a bit on the high side; water expands 4% from 4°c (water at its greatest density) to 100°c, for ease of argument say you use 250 litres a day heated through 60°c, and the expansion is 3%, say 7.5 litres, which runs to waste a day x 365 days = 2737.5 litres

A vase d'expansion sanataire 42.90€, plus the fitting kit 22.90€, Leroy-Merlin prices = 65.80€ plus labour and other bits 80€ give or take a bit 150€ all in, to save about 25€ year on the water bill, by year 6 it will have paid for its self

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:45 pm 
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Update on the law for fitting a blender to the ballon, so that water of not more than 50°c, can be supplied to the taps

I have just spoken to my son, and he told me that the law came into force June time 2006, and it is aimed at safety, so that no one can be scalded by excessively hot water coming out of the hot taps

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:26 am 
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Is there any chance of a diagram of the position of this Mitigeur Thermostatique and how will it effect the washing machine that like above 50.

I think this maybe it.
http://www.plomberie-pro.com/specific/f ... 2&pro=6035


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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:23 am 
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That's the one, French washing machines are cold fill only, if you have an English type with hot and cold fill, use a "Y" to join the two hoses at the tap, the washing machine should have an element to heat the water, so no problem

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:48 am 
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I found this site which seems to show the different items etc with diagrams.

http://www.leguideduchauffage.com/accessoires-chauffage.html

The only thing I find a bit puzzling is that in the Ballon you already have a thermostatic control which can be changed to 50 degrees, I therefore cannot see the need for an additional control, maybe I am missing something.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:18 am 
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cherami wrote:
I found this site which seems to show the different items etc with diagrams.

http://www.leguideduchauffage.com/accessoires-chauffage.html

The only thing I find a bit puzzling is that in the Ballon you already have a thermostatic control which can be changed to 50 degrees, I therefore cannot see the need for an additional control, maybe I am missing something.


The mitigeur allows you to store water at a higher temperature than 50°c, storing water at a higher temperature than 50°c can be beneficial in a number of ways;

1) It allows you to have a greater quantity of water on hand at 50°c or below than the amount stored in the Ballon

2) And much more important, storing water at 60°c to 65°c stops the bugs breeding in the warm water, the Legionella bug, can survive and breed in water at 50°c, at 60°c it cannot breed, and at 65°c its killed (that's why the authorities in the UK are saying that non-domestic hot water storage facilities, should at least once a week have the stored water raised to 65°c, to kill of any possibility of contamination of the stored hot water)

3) It also acts has a safety device in case the thermostat sticks in the on position, which it can do

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 Post subject: Re: 1 New regulation & 1 Recommendation for hot water "Ballo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:41 am 
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Ah right that's a good reason for fitting it then, and didn't know about the bugs though no doubt if they got into my bath water they would jump right back.


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