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 Post subject: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:18 am 
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Location: 16
In the rented house we have an in ground gas tank, its full mark is 85% but 85% of what? its now down to 30% so I need to get it topped up, its a "Fina" supplied tank so will get in touch with them, I assume I have no choice but to buy from them, so anyone an idea on the price of gas? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:49 am 
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Location: Basel and Suffolk
85% is 85% of capacity - they never fill to 100% to allow room for expansion and vapourisation. However, at 30% you are still some way to go as you can run the tanks right down - unlike oil there are no dregs. Gas is drawn off the top of the tank unlike oil drawn off the bottom.

As for using Fina - I have no idea - in UK the market was liberalised and we had FloGas fill our Calor tank (i.e. they all use similar fittings) - but France is not always as pro consumer.


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:16 am 
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Location: somewhere in the "pays de dropt"
We use bulk gas and our supplier recommends ordering at 25%
You need to find out if the property owners have a contract with "fina" or purchased the tank from them.
A web search will soon give you prices of all gas suppliers.
Can't give you our last price as being almost 80 years of age and with a very low pension we get a special low price,
We usually use 60% a year for heating and hot water, but have an wood burning insert which saves quite a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:31 am 
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Location: Basel and Suffolk
You make a very valuable point about ordering at 25%.

Delivery is seldom instantaneous so when delivery arrives you may be somewhat lower and unlike oil where you can get an emergency IBC to tide you over that is not possible with LPG.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:49 pm
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Location: Gers 32
We've had a buried tank since 2006, gas supplied by Antargaz, which is now joined with Finagaz.
The latest delivery, in Oct, the price was 1302€ per tonne.
We asked for the tank to be topped up from 60% to 85% and it cost 400€ approx. So you can do the maths.
The price of propane varies a lot, over time, from one company to another, and your status as a customer. We spent a few months last year trying to negotiate a better deal, which we did eventually get. **
But i still think it's an expensive way of heating, though very efficient.
Except for one very cold winter when the pressure valve on the tank froze up - no gas for a fortnight!
**they wrote - "seeing as you're clients ancien" which I thought meant old people, but later found probably customers of long-standing.


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:53 am
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Location: 16
Thanks for your answers, I didn't know how big the tank is, they vary from 500kgs to 3 Tonnes, have sent Finagaz an e-mail, and also the Uk based landlord, having looked on line the price of gas again varies from 1600€ a tonne to Finagaz which is the highest "Typical" :shock: at 2500€ a tonne, until I know the tank size I cannot work out the consumption, but considering its a large four bed, three bath, detached house with poor "R" values even though its only six years old and we are the first to live in it, it looks like I will have to pawn the wife :YMPRAY:


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Location: Basel and Suffolk
I have just done a quick comparison with what we would be paying in UK - as Calor etc don't actually deliver to France this is more just a comparison to see how badly you are being ripped off.

Cheapest in Suffolk currently 36p/litre = 68.4p/kg = £684/ton = €766/ton - all plus 5% VAT.

€2500/ton seems to be a tad high!

J


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:01 am 
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I have got some information from the landlord and have sent it to "Finagaz" they have not replied :-x the landlord has just told me that it was fitted by "Finagaz" but his contract is with "Totalgaz" they now appear to be the same company, as said Fina are not returning e-mails, and Total only supply professionals, I am running out of gas and of time anyone any ideas? my French is not up to phone conversation so will have to employ someone to sort it out. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:04 am 
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Location: somewhere in the "pays de dropt"
Spectrum2 wrote:
I have got some information from the landlord and have sent it to "Finagaz" they have not replied :-x the landlord has just told me that it was fitted by "Finagaz" but his contract is with "Totalgaz" they now appear to be the same company, as said Fina are not returning e-mails, and Total only supply professionals, I am running out of gas and of time anyone any ideas? my French is not up to phone conversation so will have to employ someone to sort it out. Thanks


As always, try your mayor,

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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:14 am 
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Thanks just got a result, the reference numbers had got mixed up, so conflicting addresses, so delivery in ten days. :) Spec


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:33 am 
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Location: Was Plouasne 22830, now Ploeuc sur Lie 22150, France
Maybe a bit late for Spec now, but maybe handy later https://prix-gaz.fr/faq/prix-gpl-citerne

Also a couple of things to note when comparing apples and oranges, or LPG/GPL for heating, the UK uses a zero rate tariff for LPG when used for heating (or used to) whilst France charges 20% TVA on GPL when used for heating

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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:15 am 
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Location: Basel and Suffolk
peake wrote:
Maybe a bit late for Spec now, but maybe handy later https://prix-gaz.fr/faq/prix-gpl-citerne

Also a couple of things to note when comparing apples and oranges, or LPG/GPL for heating, the UK uses a zero rate tariff for LPG when used for heating (or used to) whilst France charges 20% TVA on GPL when used for heating


You're showing your age now Peake! John Major introduced VAT on Domestic Fuel about 25 years ago and Tony Blair reduced it to the current 5% about 20 years ago.

Whilst 15% extra tax explains some of the differences, Butagaz at €1449 is double and Vitogaz at €2046 is nearly treble the UK price - which itself is double the bulk price! I wonder about the economics at these prices. Calor claim their UK prices work out almost the same as oil - but at those prices LPG cannot be cost effective.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:27 pm 
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niemeyjt wrote:
peake wrote:
Maybe a bit late for Spec now, but maybe handy later https://prix-gaz.fr/faq/prix-gpl-citerne

Also a couple of things to note when comparing apples and oranges, or LPG/GPL for heating, the UK uses a zero rate tariff for LPG when used for heating (or used to) whilst France charges 20% TVA on GPL when used for heating


You're showing your age now Peake! John Major introduced VAT on Domestic Fuel about 25 years ago and Tony Blair reduced it to the current 5% about 20 years ago.

Whilst 15% extra tax explains some of the differences, Butagaz at €1449 is double and Vitogaz at €2046 is nearly treble the UK price - which itself is double the bulk price! I wonder about the economics at these prices. Calor claim their UK prices work out almost the same as oil - but at those prices LPG cannot be cost effective.

J


What type of oil, apples and oranges again ??, the UK uses more wall flame type burners which burns kerosene, Petrol Lampant in France, and only used for single room heaters in France, France burns diesel oil in pressure jet burners for central heating boilers

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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Location: Basel and Suffolk
Of course in UK 28 second is prevalent whereas in France 35 second is the norm.

What is the price per therm or whatever of 35 second oil in France?

My point was that the economics of LPG at €1400/ton would seem to be significantly worse than oil - be it 28 or 35 second.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:04 pm 
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It has always (well as long as I have been following it) that the price order has been as follows:

Town Gas < wood < oil < electricity < bulk gas < bottle gas.

At times it has got very close for some of those to change a little (electricity nearly got cheaper than oil when the price was over $100/barrel). Wood is always difficult to place because local supplies can often be very, very much cheaper than the listed prices and of course there is a difference depending on length of cut and whether fresh cut or ready to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Location: Was Plouasne 22830, now Ploeuc sur Lie 22150, France
Taken from https://prixfioul.fr

Prix du fioul domestique en France

Tarifs du fioul en France
Tarifs moyens des fournisseurs de fioul domestique en France
Prix du fioul pour une commande de 1000 litres non groupée livraison incluse

Fioul ordinaire 0.769€/L

Fioul supérieur 0.788€/L

Dernière mise à jour le dimanche 3 décembre 2017 à 14h21


Région Prix du fioul Différence nationale
Prix du fioul en Alsace 767€ -2
Prix du fioul en Aquitaine 771€ +2
Prix du fioul en Auvergne 779€ +10
Prix du fioul en Basse Normandie 764€ -5
Prix du fioul en Bourgogne 773€ +4
Prix du fioul en Bretagne 757€ -12
Prix du fioul dans le Centre 773€ +4
Prix du fioul en Champagne Ardenne 769€ 0
Prix du fioul en Franche Comté 766€ -3
Prix du fioul en Haute Normandie 766€ -3
Prix du fioul en Ile de France 767€ -2
Prix du fioul en Languedoc Roussillon 760€ -9
Prix du fioul dans le Limousin 780€ +11
Prix du fioul en Lorraine 773€ +4
Prix du fioul en Midi Pyrénées 773€ +4
Prix du fioul dans le Nord Pas de Calais 765€ -4
Prix du fioul en Pays de la Loire 765€ -4
Prix du fioul en Picardie 767€ -2
Prix du fioul en Poitou Charentes 761€ -8
Prix du fioul en Provence Alpes Cotes d'Azur 766€ -3
Prix du fioul en Rhône Alpes 776€ +7

You can reckon on 10 kW/Hr useful heat / litre 35 sec diesel oil
11kW/Hr useful heat / litre, from 28 sec kerosene

From Boiler juice, https://www.boilerjuice.com/heating-oil-prices/

Red Diesel 35 sec (Gas Oil) Prices in the UK 29 Nov 53.75p/ltr

28 sec kerosene UK price 29 Nov 47.19p/lt

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An old wild fowling motto : little powder, plenty lead, kill 'em dead

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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Posts: 107
Location: 16
Been doing a few calculations, we have used 124lts of gas per week this past few weeks :( to say that we only have three of four downstairs rads on, all with TRVs, it does sound excessive, not to mention expensive, so have bought a oil filled rad, at 2.5Kwt, which helps a great deal in the lounge, so I would like to put a digital meter on it, the sort that plugs into the socket and your appliance plugs into the meter, so you can get a weekly reading of power used, what are they called in France and do the Bricos sell them? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Location: Was Plouasne 22830, now Ploeuc sur Lie 22150, France
Spec,

Is this what you are looking for, https://www.luminaire.fr/Appareil-de-mesure-de-la-consommation-energie-9505861.html?

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Three meat and one veg

An old wild fowling motto : little powder, plenty lead, kill 'em dead

English born, Living in France, Therefore European

http://www.peakeenergies.fr/

Forum Admin


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 Post subject: Re: Reservoir de gaz?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:44 am 
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Thanks Peake, thats the one. :ymhug: Spec


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