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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:48 pm 
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Pareloopy wrote:
SPJ wrote:
....Oh and the B&W thing - a whole other topic. I'm not sure digital cameras can do good B&W????? ...

Image

Shot into low sun. Desaturated and tweaked in PS.
I actually prefer the original which has a hint of colour in the wakeboarder (my son).



Fabulous shot Pareloopy! I stand corrected :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:08 pm 
Pareloopy wrote:
Ah. In the cold light of day & after a sleep I can see lots of errors, but you get the jist.

Now removed the offending gorse bush and re-submitted image. :ymblushing:


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:32 pm 
SPJ
Here's "Ramparts"
Just minor tweaking. Adjusted the highlights/shadows, contrast and upped the saturation approx 10%.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:43 pm 
I would keep number 2 as is. The others I would convert to B&W.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:45 pm 
And here's the doorway. Similar processing. Plus I've put a border round it.

Image

Edit - border is just to show that it can be done quite easily in PS.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Pareloopy wrote:
Clare
I was just turning off when I saw your post.
Done a very quick tweak. First of all, I think I would have taken a few steps to the right and put the big tree to the left of the picture.
So I've (very quickly and not thoroughly) cloned out most of the gorse bush and the horse (plus it's deposits on the grass :)) ). Then I've cropped the bottom, adjusted the highlights and contrast. Then sharpened. Spent about 10mins on it.
Image



The thing that amazes me the most is how you got the contrast on the cliffs to the left of the tree, there was just a blur there before.

clare


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:10 pm 
Oups, when you mentioned Canon EOS SJP I assumed argentique rather than numerique. See, me and ideas not good for society :oops: .


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:25 pm 
clarelouise wrote:
The thing that amazes me the most is how you got the contrast on the cliffs to the left of the tree, there was just a blur there before.

clare


Clare. I can't remember if you said you had photoshop or not but in it there's an adjustment called Shadows/Highlights. With it you can lighten the shadows and darken the highlights. It's included in Elements 5 that I run on my laptop. Although Elements is now up to version 8 (£48.00), I can recommend 5 and it can be had from Amazon for around £12.00.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:31 am 
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Pareloopy thank you, it's so interesting to see how subtle small changes in lighting / contrast / colour have such a positive impact on the overall effect of a photo. Did you do a photoshop course?

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:57 pm 
No - but did buy Photoshop For Dummies!!
A lot of early attempts were trial & error. Still struggle with layers, though, so I tend to keep the changes simple. Some day I must get my head round layers.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:35 pm 
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dr orloff wrote:
I would keep number 2 as is. The others I would convert to B&W.


Interested in your suggestion Dr O re converting to B&W - what makes you say that?

I struggle to get a good clean B&W in digital. If I convert an image somehow they just come out muddy - or with a blue / yellow or red "tinge " to the black. More to learn! :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:56 pm 
Because stonework always looks good (and many think better) in B&W, as does strong contrast, structural form and candid street type scenes - which for me are the principal elements of those photos. I think the jetty scene is particularly striking without colour as it emphasises the structure and I think increases the vertiginous impact. See what you think:

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Used Flickr to edit-I don't use any software packages. Straightened it. Brought up the contrast. Deepened the colours . Removed the frame-hope you don't mind Pareloppy-I think that the stonework 'is' the frame.Rounded the edges to echo the arched stonework.

Image


RAMPARTS
Definitely would keep this one in colour.Lots of contrast there-strong rust against the worn stone.The railing shadows across the steps. I cropped away the top section-didn't think it added a lot to the overall picture.The end of the concrete walkway seemed to be a natural end to me.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Interesting Rebus - that doorway begins to have a Moroccan feel. Hotter and more exotic than Cahors in March!

And I knew it wasn't quite straight but each time I tried it just seemed worse, so thank you for the correction.

I agree with you about the end of the rampart. Except that if you'd seen it, that bit at the top is the drop into the ravine. I still feel queasy looking at it!

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Hi SPJ-yes,that door really made me think of Arabic influences. I don't know if you use Flickr but the edit part-Picnik-has some simple and handy features.The 'rotate' function had a lovely 'straighten' slider-takes seconds.

Yes-I can imagine the feeling in your stomach with that drop!!

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder.
I like the photos in colour, but please guys hold back a bit on the saturation!
I feel black & white images often look flat, though in the street scene it does add some atmosphere.
Sorry rebus, I don't like the rounded corners on the arch or the shortened version of "Ramparts," it doesn't look quite as dramatic.
Just a small point but the saturation looks different depending on your own screen. So when adjusting your photo, what you see is not exactly what everyone else sees.
I have a set-up with two screens, one shows more depth of colour than the other, different again on the lap-top. It will also be different if you print it, depending on your settings.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Well, of course the colours look different! I have 3 laptops-Dell/HP/Mac and a Samsung Netbook-everyone's pictures look different on each one.We're playing around with someone else's work so a little licence is fine,I think. :)

For me,in 'ramparts' the 'drop' was too murky-my interest was in all the detail surrounding the structure-I really liked that part of the shot very much,probably because I'm a shape and detail hound.

Different printers print differently too-home or commercial. Commercial outfits can do terribble things to photo prints. I only used Boots once-years ago-and everything came out green.............best outfit I found was a place in Dubai.....the chap actually bothered to look at what he was doing.Balham mentioned paper quality,too-it all makes a difference.Nothing beats being in control of your own production,though.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:39 am 
Mandy
It would be great if you could post a version or two, so that we can see how you interpret SPJ's pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:46 pm 
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There you go........much better. :D

Image

No, seriously though the processes where: original photo: Adjusted levels,sharpened edges,slight colour change.
Then adjusted contrast,sharpness, saturation,brightness & contrast around the group of people.
Pasted the sheep (new layer),adjusted the size,brightness,contrast. Burn tool in areas on sheep, drop shadow.

I like most of the changes done on the photos already. They are much the same as I would do, only with a bit less saturation on some. ;-)
SPJ, I think you have a good eye for a photo.

One tip I would pass on for people new to photoshop type software,is when working on a photo for a long time with lots of pasted items in layers, every now and then flip the whole image horizontally. You will easily see any errors in shadow casts/perspective etc... Your eyes just get used to seeing the image the way it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Thanks Mandy! I love the fact that none of the women on the bench is taking any notice of the sheep. :lol:

PS: What is the copyright situation now if we turn this into a poster?????????

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Yours I suppose. I'm not sure though,strictly speaking I couldn't adulterate your original and call it my own if you had already copyrighted it. :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Naylor's Ark wrote:
Yours I suppose. I'm not sure though,strictly speaking I couldn't adulterate your original and call it my own if you had already copyrighted it. :-?


But interestingly it's no longer "just" my work. You have added something to it that makes it quirky /more intriguing. I think we'll have to share the glory :ymhug:

I wonder if anyone knows? I do know that there was a row in the US over the poster used in Obama's campaign because the person who digitised the image made no reference to the work of the original photographer.

And I've just realised, I haven't said how well I think you've used photoshop. Would love to see some of your own work - before and after - if you wouldn't mind sharing.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:01 pm 
The monochrome images do it for me. Has that extra something that gets lost in colour.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:46 am 
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Naylor's Ark wrote:
Yours I suppose. I'm not sure though,strictly speaking I couldn't adulterate your original and call it my own if you had already copyrighted it. :-?


The copyright always stays with the photographer, no matter how much you alter the image. The photographer can sell the rights to use the image, but would still retain the copyright.
The act of taking the photograph, confers the copyright onto the photographer. The only time this would be different, is when the photographer is employed full time as such, and all work taken in the course of their work, then the copyright would belong to the employers. When you hire (employ) a photographer to take photos at a wedding / portrait / whatever, you are commissioning them, the copyright still belongs to the photographer.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:51 pm 
Naylor's Ark wrote:
There you go........much better. :D


:-bd Mandy. Gets my vote.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Lensman wrote:
Naylor's Ark wrote:
Yours I suppose. I'm not sure though,strictly speaking I couldn't adulterate your original and call it my own if you had already copyrighted it. :-?


The copyright always stays with the photographer, no matter how much you alter the image. The photographer can sell the rights to use the image, but would still retain the copyright.
The act of taking the photograph, confers the copyright onto the photographer. The only time this would be different, is when the photographer is employed full time as such, and all work taken in the course of their work, then the copyright would belong to the employers. When you hire (employ) a photographer to take photos at a wedding / portrait / whatever, you are commissioning them, the copyright still belongs to the photographer.


Thanks Lensman. So Mandy improves my picture, makes it more interesting and more likely to sell as an intriguing / slightly bizzare image and yet has no rights to any of that????

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Balham wrote:
The monochrome images do it for me. Has that extra something that gets lost in colour.


Balham, I still remain to be convinced. If it was originally shot on B&W film, I would agree with you, but just not sure with colour digital converted to B&W.

By the way, what paper would you recommend printing them on? Matt? Semi-gloss? Glossy? I normally print my colour stuff on heavy-weight matt unless it's full-on close-up glowing roses etc, which seem to need lots of gloss. I thought I'd see what one or two B&W look like printed, to see if I'm more convinced! I've no experience of B&W printing.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:27 pm 
Paper, my preference was Fuji.

Gloss. I remember years ago people developed a preference for matt paper but it didn't quite have the same impact as gloss and I thought made the images fairly flat, without interest. Some ideas here Fuji paper. For Ilford try this. The only film / paper that I was not too happy with was Kodak.


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Glossy paper, how I used to struggle to get the darned stuff to stick to the surface of the drying plate so that you got that real high gloss finish ;-)
The detail that gloss finishes is capable of showing has to be seen to be believed, the surface on matt papers hid a lot of detail.
The only trouble with gloss finishes, is the reflections when viewing. The same problem with cheap glass in frames.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:15 pm 
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SPJ wrote:
Lensman wrote:
Naylor's Ark wrote:
Yours I suppose. I'm not sure though,strictly speaking I couldn't adulterate your original and call it my own if you had already copyrighted it. :-?


The copyright always stays with the photographer, no matter how much you alter the image. The photographer can sell the rights to use the image, but would still retain the copyright.
The act of taking the photograph, confers the copyright onto the photographer. The only time this would be different, is when the photographer is employed full time as such, and all work taken in the course of their work, then the copyright would belong to the employers. When you hire (employ) a photographer to take photos at a wedding / portrait / whatever, you are commissioning them, the copyright still belongs to the photographer.


Thanks Lensman. So Mandy improves my picture, makes it more interesting and more likely to sell as an intriguing / slightly bizzare image and yet has no rights to any of that????



True, otherwise we could trawl the internet and pinch others works, alter them slightly and call them our own :shock: It would be easy ways of finding a winning photo for the monthly competition :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:23 pm 
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SPJ wrote:
Would love to see some of your own work - before and after - if you wouldn't mind sharing.


Unfortunately I don't keep any original photos, only the end results.
Here are some that I've cropped.I kept the full versions as I like both.
Image
Image
Most of my "fun time" on photoshop is taken making mock ups of our renovations/garden.
This is so MOH can visualize what I'm thinking for improvements. These are usually very rough with no care taken on producing shadows etc...
Image
I'll continue in another post before I run out of space...................

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:32 pm 
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continued.....
I also love playing with photos. Here are some examples of stuff I've done in the past.
These include a heading that I had for my dressmaking business and my colyphon.
Image
Every Christmas I have fun creating a card.
Image
This one is still my favourite, it's about 8 years old.I think I could improve on it now.
Image
This is actual work. Modern day "Artist's impressions" if you like for a conservatory company.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:05 pm 
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I am in the process of creating a new Photography forum, with topics such as this How to Improve, the Photo competition etc etc.
This will stay in the General area as it is at present.
The idea is to have sub-sections under the Photography section so that it is easier to locate the heading you want to post under.
Please bear with me.....! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Blaze excellent idea - I really want to be able to do what Naylors Ark can do. I need to know how to use layers.

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 Post subject: Re: Photography - How to Improve?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Nettie wrote:
Blaze excellent idea - I really want to be able to do what Naylors Ark can do. I need to know how to use layers.


This might help,Nettie-from DPS

http://digital-photography-school.com/u ... -photoshop

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